What are we going to do about Coillte ?

Ok, all joking aside, what are we as a club going to do about Coillte banning us from running events ?
Now we have as a Committee responded.
ANy dealings we have with them in the future is as a Committee.
But first of all I have made my anger plain to Cycling Ireland, The Offroad Commission and MBI.
But we will be asking for an official response from them and expecting them to support us.
So we as a Club have to decide whats the best way forward.
The fact that Coillte have decided to slam the door on us for no documented reason is not good enough.
I think that if they had an issue they should have raised it with Cycling Ireland and Cycling Ireland should have met us and asked us for an explanation and disciplined us if they felt it was necessary.
Now personally :
I think that that should have been done through the Offroad Commission.
I think Coillte have been ignorant and spiteful in their response.
I think MBI should ask for an explanation from Coillte and work to resolve the situation.
Otherwise its a completely useless entity.
I think that the " powers that be " are basically leaving us high and dry. I have nothing personal against any of the members of these organisations but until they prove otherwise I am taking the stance that they are actively against us.
I dont think Coillte will allow us back in, I've a long history with them and in the
words of Bill Murphy the real head of Coillte Recreation the Mountainbike Problem is not going away.
To them we are a problem. Nothing more.
Sensible replies please.

I would prefer to give Coillte the fingers and find an alternative venue, all the senior members that i have spoken to advocate going down the political route, the media , petitions and a massive campaign.

Consider this, we have accepted MBIs recommendations for years, toed the line regarding access and done as we were asked to keep the peace and foster good relations in case something like this happened.
Now we don't have to.

Now I hope that the response we have sent Coillte will encourage them to re consider , however unlikely that might seem but failing that we need a new venue.

Ideas please.
Richie

I think foremost serious issues like the post Blast letter have to be dealt with in a more serious manner. Whatever you think about the letter being heavy handed I think it was a mistake to post it on the forum, and invite all the inflammatory responses. It played right into NPWS/Coilte hands. As the President you set the tone and the tone was very confrontational in response. As the largest MTB club in the land we need to be measured, strategic and more calculated about where we want to go. As much as you hate diplomacy it is the only way long term. If we act like fools we will be treated as fools. So lets box clever. We are club full of amazing people, with various strengths across the board. Lets get to work and get to where we all want to be.

ok Don, i see your point and hindsight is a great thing but its not going to help us now. I agreed to ask the Club for their solutions so that we can fix this. So lets fix this.

How about we invite Coillte to a round table meeting? Perhaps hosted by a neutral body (CI?) As important as written communication is (for records etc.) there is nothing better than face to face discussion. And it should probably focus on the current issue of Epic organizing the event in Djouce, rather than on the general access for mtbers (if possible).

the phrase "closing the door after the horse has bolted" comes to mind

EPIC MTB as a committee should have brought the issue/refusal letter to CI's attention before all the angry and and very-much unconstructive comments were plastered all over this forum, boards.ie and Facebook, I can't understand what was meant to be achieved by that action

The negative comments were damaging to the MTB/Coillte relationship, a relationship which is difficult to maintain even in the best of times.
It's hard enough dealing with the likes of Coillte without the people we are trying to support undermining the efforts of the offroad commission
Comments to the effect of cutting down trees and hammering nails into trees etc... is just plain crazy
You know well that Coillte will use any excuse they can find to make things hard for us, and I wouldn't be surprised if your Thursday night league has been put in jeopardy also
I do agree that the Coillte reply to you was unprofessional in that no specifics were given for the decision they made, but at the end of the day, we are dealing with an organisation who does not owe us anything, and whose primary reason for being in business is to grow and chop down trees, plain and simple.
Dealing with such a relationship is always going to be difficult, because of this very reason, and as much as it frustrates us, communications to such an organisation always have to carefully calculated, measured and professional and tongue-biting is a big part of it.

Some comments/posts that were made were far from that, and it's those comments that will stick in the mind of the decision-makers at Coillte when it comes to permit applications etc..

I knew people would use this opportunity to point the finger but hey, I'll try anything once.
This is just what we need, blame the bad people , thats ok ,I accept the responsibility for this.
If people think that my resignation as President will help, demand it, otherwise help me fix this.
i don't actually care if people don't try but the Committee decided we should.
Dont blame the Committee for this , stand up and blame me. I was the one who posted all the original posts. I'm the poster boy for anti coillte sentiment and the all time pain in the arse.
But even if you took me out of the picture things would be exactly the same, and i can tell you this, if they put an end to the Thursday races, i'd be relieved.
Every year we have to deal with the possibility that they will. The same can be said about the Blast and every other event we've ran. I'm glad they are refusing the permit, I dont have to worry about getting the venues anymore.
But The Club deserves the chance to get the decision reversed.
Point the finger at me, it doesnt bother me at all but don't tar everybody else with the same brush,
Richie

While I agree that we should try and get Coillte to rescind this decision I frankly don't think that will happen and even if it does how long before this happens again?

We are a club full of people with strong opinions - we are brash, arrogant and basically a "pain in the ass"! We are MADs "noisy neighbour" and as much as we annoy people, EPIC will be sorely missed if we cease to exist! And I really believe that if we can't hold races then the club will inevitably slowely but surely disappear. As well as being a source of funds, race organisation is also the outlet that we use to prove that we are the "biggest and best"!

So in my opinion, the only long term solution for the survival of EPIC Mtb is that we find our own race venue on non-Coillte land. While this will be difficult it should not be impossible - the Worcies have Kilruddery and a number of other park venues and Cuchulainn have Bellurgan!

So in summary, I think we should continue to try and get Coillte to change their minds but our main focus as a club should be to find an alternative venue. Obviously a woodland would be ideal but we should consider other options too!

Come on lads and lassies lets hear your opinions and suggestions please - this is after all "our" club!

Ok I didn't read all the posts that have gone before and I don't know who has been pissed off and who hasn't. But surely this is where CI and MTB Ireland step in.. is this not what they are there for. At worst we can be accused of taking liberties, or stupidity at best, by starting the blast on the NP land. There was no malice involved, it wasn't for financial reasons, it was to provide the best setting for an event about to be shown on the international stage.

If CI and MTB Ireland can't represent us to solve this dispute I'm not sure what they are here for.

Shona, we kind of made our own bed on this and it behoves us to sort it out. We can't go round hurling abuse and expect the other bodies to solve it.

This is not about finger pointing. Mistakes have been made, so we learn from it and move on.

I think looking for another venue is a good long term goal, and while doing that I think that Max's suggestion to sit down and talk to Coilte is the calm the waters is the only way. Every conflict ends in negotiation and hopefully resolution. If they don't accept our explanation/apology over an honest mistake, then there is really not much we can do and we move on.

Ritchie,

The sport would be nothing without Epic! I would make contact with Minister Leo Varadkar and ask him to mediate on this issue. Draft a letter and get all the clubs to sign and total membership of all clubs.

Ask for a meeting with Leo. Have all your facts about the sport, the low impact on the environment, the benefits to the economy and the job etc ect it is creating. He will want facts and benefits of this!

Then get him to write to Coilte asking why they made the decision and if it can be reversed.

As bad as Varadkar is he is the reporting minister for sport transport and the likes.

Only a suggestion but the 'foock them attitude will not work as the seem to have advertised a security tender recently and are clamping down on trespass for some reason.....

Martin

Martin, the issue here is not about access, that is another days work. This is about working with Coitle to get permissions to run events on their land.

Lads - this is too important to lapse into a slagging match!

Much as I hate the expression but ... "we are where we are"!

What we need to hear from people is their opinions as to how we go forward from here!

when i wrote that i was being a bit sarcastic and OTT, my point was that for the past few years we have removed reckless features which appearon trails because we didnt want to **** things for the blast. maybe some people dont know whats going on in ballinastoe at the moment but the current pace of trailbuilding has never been seen before,a couple of weeks ago i was there on sunday,wednesday and friday and every time there was something new. for some time now i have been reigning in people regarding what they want to build "you will **** up the blast" was a very effective line. i met two of them at the weekend and they laughed at me and told me what they are building next and are already stockpiling timber. my post a few days ago may have been plain crazy but today it is real and epic have no influence on it .

just an update.
The majority of advice I have been given by very sensible people is to bring the politicians in.
Regardless of opinions posted on the Internet, Coillte being a semi state body are supposed to be above that .
And as for the NPWS , I will be meeting them in or around the New Year.
Remember that the land in question belong to us the tax payer.
Certain sections of the wider community may not like us or may want to prohibit our use of it but we have every right to fight this.

And I am speaking from the Committees standpoint when I say , its help and advice we need.
This I told you so doesn't help.

I would still prefer to find our own venue but the overall sentiment towards Coillte is that we cannot allow them to do this.

would it be worth while trying to sit down with Coillte before going over their head to the Minister? If we go straight to him and he has no power/inclination to help up it's just another nail in the coffin of relationships with them!
If they refuse or talks don't solve anything by all means go to the Minister.
I also think any talks should include CI/MTB ireland, if we do have to go to the Minister he is more likely to take us seriously if we have the backing of a national organisation.

Ok, all joking aside, what are we as a club going to do about Coillte banning us from running events ?
Now we have as a Committee responded.
ANy dealings we have with them in the future is as a Committee.
But first of all I have made my anger plain to Cycling Ireland, The Offroad Commission and MBI.
But we will be asking for an official response from them and expecting them to support us.
So we as a Club have to decide whats the best way forward.
The fact that Coillte have decided to slam the door on us for no documented reason is not good enough.
I think that if they had an issue they should have raised it with Cycling Ireland and Cycling Ireland should have met us and asked us for an explanation and disciplined us if they felt it was necessary.
Now personally :
I think that that should have been done through the Offroad Commission.
I think Coillte have been ignorant and spiteful in their response.
I think MBI should ask for an explanation from Coillte and work to resolve the situation.
Otherwise its a completely useless entity.
I think that the " powers that be " are basically leaving us high and dry. I have nothing personal against any of the members of these organisations but until they prove otherwise I am taking the stance that they are actively against us.
I dont think Coillte will allow us back in, I've a long history with them and in the
words of Bill Murphy the real head of Coillte Recreation the Mountainbike Problem is not going away.
To them we are a problem. Nothing more.
Sensible replies please.

I would prefer to give Coillte the fingers and find an alternative venue, all the senior members that i have spoken to advocate going down the political route, the media , petitions and a massive campaign.

Consider this, we have accepted MBIs recommendations for years, toed the line regarding access and done as we were asked to keep the peace and foster good relations in case something like this happened.
Now we don't have to.

Now I hope that the response we have sent Coillte will encourage them to re consider , however unlikely that might seem but failing that we need a new venue.

Ideas please.
Richie

I think foremost serious issues like the post Blast letter have to be dealt with in a more serious manner. Whatever you think about the letter being heavy handed I think it was a mistake to post it on the forum, and invite all the inflammatory responses. It played right into NPWS/Coilte hands. As the President you set the tone and the tone was very confrontational in response. As the largest MTB club in the land we need to be measured, strategic and more calculated about where we want to go. As much as you hate diplomacy it is the only way long term. If we act like fools we will be treated as fools. So lets box clever. We are club full of amazing people, with various strengths across the board. Lets get to work and get to where we all want to be.

ok Don, i see your point and hindsight is a great thing but its not going to help us now. I agreed to ask the Club for their solutions so that we can fix this. So lets fix this.

How about we invite Coillte to a round table meeting? Perhaps hosted by a neutral body (CI?) As important as written communication is (for records etc.) there is nothing better than face to face discussion. And it should probably focus on the current issue of Epic organizing the event in Djouce, rather than on the general access for mtbers (if possible).

the phrase "closing the door after the horse has bolted" comes to mind

EPIC MTB as a committee should have brought the issue/refusal letter to CI's attention before all the angry and and very-much unconstructive comments were plastered all over this forum, boards.ie and Facebook, I can't understand what was meant to be achieved by that action

The negative comments were damaging to the MTB/Coillte relationship, a relationship which is difficult to maintain even in the best of times.
It's hard enough dealing with the likes of Coillte without the people we are trying to support undermining the efforts of the offroad commission
Comments to the effect of cutting down trees and hammering nails into trees etc... is just plain crazy
You know well that Coillte will use any excuse they can find to make things hard for us, and I wouldn't be surprised if your Thursday night league has been put in jeopardy also
I do agree that the Coillte reply to you was unprofessional in that no specifics were given for the decision they made, but at the end of the day, we are dealing with an organisation who does not owe us anything, and whose primary reason for being in business is to grow and chop down trees, plain and simple.
Dealing with such a relationship is always going to be difficult, because of this very reason, and as much as it frustrates us, communications to such an organisation always have to carefully calculated, measured and professional and tongue-biting is a big part of it.

Some comments/posts that were made were far from that, and it's those comments that will stick in the mind of the decision-makers at Coillte when it comes to permit applications etc..

I knew people would use this opportunity to point the finger but hey, I'll try anything once.
This is just what we need, blame the bad people , thats ok ,I accept the responsibility for this.
If people think that my resignation as President will help, demand it, otherwise help me fix this.
i don't actually care if people don't try but the Committee decided we should.
Dont blame the Committee for this , stand up and blame me. I was the one who posted all the original posts. I'm the poster boy for anti coillte sentiment and the all time pain in the arse.
But even if you took me out of the picture things would be exactly the same, and i can tell you this, if they put an end to the Thursday races, i'd be relieved.
Every year we have to deal with the possibility that they will. The same can be said about the Blast and every other event we've ran. I'm glad they are refusing the permit, I dont have to worry about getting the venues anymore.
But The Club deserves the chance to get the decision reversed.
Point the finger at me, it doesnt bother me at all but don't tar everybody else with the same brush,
Richie

While I agree that we should try and get Coillte to rescind this decision I frankly don't think that will happen and even if it does how long before this happens again?

We are a club full of people with strong opinions - we are brash, arrogant and basically a "pain in the ass"! We are MADs "noisy neighbour" and as much as we annoy people, EPIC will be sorely missed if we cease to exist! And I really believe that if we can't hold races then the club will inevitably slowely but surely disappear. As well as being a source of funds, race organisation is also the outlet that we use to prove that we are the "biggest and best"!

So in my opinion, the only long term solution for the survival of EPIC Mtb is that we find our own race venue on non-Coillte land. While this will be difficult it should not be impossible - the Worcies have Kilruddery and a number of other park venues and Cuchulainn have Bellurgan!

So in summary, I think we should continue to try and get Coillte to change their minds but our main focus as a club should be to find an alternative venue. Obviously a woodland would be ideal but we should consider other options too!

Come on lads and lassies lets hear your opinions and suggestions please - this is after all "our" club!

Ok I didn't read all the posts that have gone before and I don't know who has been pissed off and who hasn't. But surely this is where CI and MTB Ireland step in.. is this not what they are there for. At worst we can be accused of taking liberties, or stupidity at best, by starting the blast on the NP land. There was no malice involved, it wasn't for financial reasons, it was to provide the best setting for an event about to be shown on the international stage.

If CI and MTB Ireland can't represent us to solve this dispute I'm not sure what they are here for.

Shona, we kind of made our own bed on this and it behoves us to sort it out. We can't go round hurling abuse and expect the other bodies to solve it.

This is not about finger pointing. Mistakes have been made, so we learn from it and move on.

I think looking for another venue is a good long term goal, and while doing that I think that Max's suggestion to sit down and talk to Coilte is the calm the waters is the only way. Every conflict ends in negotiation and hopefully resolution. If they don't accept our explanation/apology over an honest mistake, then there is really not much we can do and we move on.

Ritchie,

The sport would be nothing without Epic! I would make contact with Minister Leo Varadkar and ask him to mediate on this issue. Draft a letter and get all the clubs to sign and total membership of all clubs.

Ask for a meeting with Leo. Have all your facts about the sport, the low impact on the environment, the benefits to the economy and the job etc ect it is creating. He will want facts and benefits of this!

Then get him to write to Coilte asking why they made the decision and if it can be reversed.

As bad as Varadkar is he is the reporting minister for sport transport and the likes.

Only a suggestion but the 'foock them attitude will not work as the seem to have advertised a security tender recently and are clamping down on trespass for some reason.....

Martin

Martin, the issue here is not about access, that is another days work. This is about working with Coitle to get permissions to run events on their land.

Lads - this is too important to lapse into a slagging match!

Much as I hate the expression but ... "we are where we are"!

What we need to hear from people is their opinions as to how we go forward from here!

when i wrote that i was being a bit sarcastic and OTT, my point was that for the past few years we have removed reckless features which appearon trails because we didnt want to **** things for the blast. maybe some people dont know whats going on in ballinastoe at the moment but the current pace of trailbuilding has never been seen before,a couple of weeks ago i was there on sunday,wednesday and friday and every time there was something new. for some time now i have been reigning in people regarding what they want to build "you will **** up the blast" was a very effective line. i met two of them at the weekend and they laughed at me and told me what they are building next and are already stockpiling timber. my post a few days ago may have been plain crazy but today it is real and epic have no influence on it .

just an update.
The majority of advice I have been given by very sensible people is to bring the politicians in.
Regardless of opinions posted on the Internet, Coillte being a semi state body are supposed to be above that .
And as for the NPWS , I will be meeting them in or around the New Year.
Remember that the land in question belong to us the tax payer.
Certain sections of the wider community may not like us or may want to prohibit our use of it but we have every right to fight this.

And I am speaking from the Committees standpoint when I say , its help and advice we need.
This I told you so doesn't help.

I would still prefer to find our own venue but the overall sentiment towards Coillte is that we cannot allow them to do this.

would it be worth while trying to sit down with Coillte before going over their head to the Minister? If we go straight to him and he has no power/inclination to help up it's just another nail in the coffin of relationships with them!
If they refuse or talks don't solve anything by all means go to the Minister.
I also think any talks should include CI/MTB ireland, if we do have to go to the Minister he is more likely to take us seriously if we have the backing of a national organisation.

Ok, all joking aside, what are we as a club going to do about Coillte banning us from running events ?
Now we have as a Committee responded.
ANy dealings we have with them in the future is as a Committee.
But first of all I have made my anger plain to Cycling Ireland, The Offroad Commission and MBI.
But we will be asking for an official response from them and expecting them to support us.
So we as a Club have to decide whats the best way forward.
The fact that Coillte have decided to slam the door on us for no documented reason is not good enough.
I think that if they had an issue they should have raised it with Cycling Ireland and Cycling Ireland should have met us and asked us for an explanation and disciplined us if they felt it was necessary.
Now personally :
I think that that should have been done through the Offroad Commission.
I think Coillte have been ignorant and spiteful in their response.
I think MBI should ask for an explanation from Coillte and work to resolve the situation.
Otherwise its a completely useless entity.
I think that the " powers that be " are basically leaving us high and dry. I have nothing personal against any of the members of these organisations but until they prove otherwise I am taking the stance that they are actively against us.
I dont think Coillte will allow us back in, I've a long history with them and in the
words of Bill Murphy the real head of Coillte Recreation the Mountainbike Problem is not going away.
To them we are a problem. Nothing more.
Sensible replies please.

I would prefer to give Coillte the fingers and find an alternative venue, all the senior members that i have spoken to advocate going down the political route, the media , petitions and a massive campaign.

Consider this, we have accepted MBIs recommendations for years, toed the line regarding access and done as we were asked to keep the peace and foster good relations in case something like this happened.
Now we don't have to.

Now I hope that the response we have sent Coillte will encourage them to re consider , however unlikely that might seem but failing that we need a new venue.

Ideas please.
Richie

I think foremost serious issues like the post Blast letter have to be dealt with in a more serious manner. Whatever you think about the letter being heavy handed I think it was a mistake to post it on the forum, and invite all the inflammatory responses. It played right into NPWS/Coilte hands. As the President you set the tone and the tone was very confrontational in response. As the largest MTB club in the land we need to be measured, strategic and more calculated about where we want to go. As much as you hate diplomacy it is the only way long term. If we act like fools we will be treated as fools. So lets box clever. We are club full of amazing people, with various strengths across the board. Lets get to work and get to where we all want to be.

ok Don, i see your point and hindsight is a great thing but its not going to help us now. I agreed to ask the Club for their solutions so that we can fix this. So lets fix this.

How about we invite Coillte to a round table meeting? Perhaps hosted by a neutral body (CI?) As important as written communication is (for records etc.) there is nothing better than face to face discussion. And it should probably focus on the current issue of Epic organizing the event in Djouce, rather than on the general access for mtbers (if possible).

the phrase "closing the door after the horse has bolted" comes to mind

EPIC MTB as a committee should have brought the issue/refusal letter to CI's attention before all the angry and and very-much unconstructive comments were plastered all over this forum, boards.ie and Facebook, I can't understand what was meant to be achieved by that action

The negative comments were damaging to the MTB/Coillte relationship, a relationship which is difficult to maintain even in the best of times.
It's hard enough dealing with the likes of Coillte without the people we are trying to support undermining the efforts of the offroad commission
Comments to the effect of cutting down trees and hammering nails into trees etc... is just plain crazy
You know well that Coillte will use any excuse they can find to make things hard for us, and I wouldn't be surprised if your Thursday night league has been put in jeopardy also
I do agree that the Coillte reply to you was unprofessional in that no specifics were given for the decision they made, but at the end of the day, we are dealing with an organisation who does not owe us anything, and whose primary reason for being in business is to grow and chop down trees, plain and simple.
Dealing with such a relationship is always going to be difficult, because of this very reason, and as much as it frustrates us, communications to such an organisation always have to carefully calculated, measured and professional and tongue-biting is a big part of it.

Some comments/posts that were made were far from that, and it's those comments that will stick in the mind of the decision-makers at Coillte when it comes to permit applications etc..

I knew people would use this opportunity to point the finger but hey, I'll try anything once.
This is just what we need, blame the bad people , thats ok ,I accept the responsibility for this.
If people think that my resignation as President will help, demand it, otherwise help me fix this.
i don't actually care if people don't try but the Committee decided we should.
Dont blame the Committee for this , stand up and blame me. I was the one who posted all the original posts. I'm the poster boy for anti coillte sentiment and the all time pain in the arse.
But even if you took me out of the picture things would be exactly the same, and i can tell you this, if they put an end to the Thursday races, i'd be relieved.
Every year we have to deal with the possibility that they will. The same can be said about the Blast and every other event we've ran. I'm glad they are refusing the permit, I dont have to worry about getting the venues anymore.
But The Club deserves the chance to get the decision reversed.
Point the finger at me, it doesnt bother me at all but don't tar everybody else with the same brush,
Richie

While I agree that we should try and get Coillte to rescind this decision I frankly don't think that will happen and even if it does how long before this happens again?

We are a club full of people with strong opinions - we are brash, arrogant and basically a "pain in the ass"! We are MADs "noisy neighbour" and as much as we annoy people, EPIC will be sorely missed if we cease to exist! And I really believe that if we can't hold races then the club will inevitably slowely but surely disappear. As well as being a source of funds, race organisation is also the outlet that we use to prove that we are the "biggest and best"!

So in my opinion, the only long term solution for the survival of EPIC Mtb is that we find our own race venue on non-Coillte land. While this will be difficult it should not be impossible - the Worcies have Kilruddery and a number of other park venues and Cuchulainn have Bellurgan!

So in summary, I think we should continue to try and get Coillte to change their minds but our main focus as a club should be to find an alternative venue. Obviously a woodland would be ideal but we should consider other options too!

Come on lads and lassies lets hear your opinions and suggestions please - this is after all "our" club!

Ok I didn't read all the posts that have gone before and I don't know who has been pissed off and who hasn't. But surely this is where CI and MTB Ireland step in.. is this not what they are there for. At worst we can be accused of taking liberties, or stupidity at best, by starting the blast on the NP land. There was no malice involved, it wasn't for financial reasons, it was to provide the best setting for an event about to be shown on the international stage.

If CI and MTB Ireland can't represent us to solve this dispute I'm not sure what they are here for.

Shona, we kind of made our own bed on this and it behoves us to sort it out. We can't go round hurling abuse and expect the other bodies to solve it.

This is not about finger pointing. Mistakes have been made, so we learn from it and move on.

I think looking for another venue is a good long term goal, and while doing that I think that Max's suggestion to sit down and talk to Coilte is the calm the waters is the only way. Every conflict ends in negotiation and hopefully resolution. If they don't accept our explanation/apology over an honest mistake, then there is really not much we can do and we move on.

Ritchie,

The sport would be nothing without Epic! I would make contact with Minister Leo Varadkar and ask him to mediate on this issue. Draft a letter and get all the clubs to sign and total membership of all clubs.

Ask for a meeting with Leo. Have all your facts about the sport, the low impact on the environment, the benefits to the economy and the job etc ect it is creating. He will want facts and benefits of this!

Then get him to write to Coilte asking why they made the decision and if it can be reversed.

As bad as Varadkar is he is the reporting minister for sport transport and the likes.

Only a suggestion but the 'foock them attitude will not work as the seem to have advertised a security tender recently and are clamping down on trespass for some reason.....

Martin

Martin, the issue here is not about access, that is another days work. This is about working with Coitle to get permissions to run events on their land.

Lads - this is too important to lapse into a slagging match!

Much as I hate the expression but ... "we are where we are"!

What we need to hear from people is their opinions as to how we go forward from here!

when i wrote that i was being a bit sarcastic and OTT, my point was that for the past few years we have removed reckless features which appearon trails because we didnt want to **** things for the blast. maybe some people dont know whats going on in ballinastoe at the moment but the current pace of trailbuilding has never been seen before,a couple of weeks ago i was there on sunday,wednesday and friday and every time there was something new. for some time now i have been reigning in people regarding what they want to build "you will **** up the blast" was a very effective line. i met two of them at the weekend and they laughed at me and told me what they are building next and are already stockpiling timber. my post a few days ago may have been plain crazy but today it is real and epic have no influence on it .

just an update.
The majority of advice I have been given by very sensible people is to bring the politicians in.
Regardless of opinions posted on the Internet, Coillte being a semi state body are supposed to be above that .
And as for the NPWS , I will be meeting them in or around the New Year.
Remember that the land in question belong to us the tax payer.
Certain sections of the wider community may not like us or may want to prohibit our use of it but we have every right to fight this.

And I am speaking from the Committees standpoint when I say , its help and advice we need.
This I told you so doesn't help.

I would still prefer to find our own venue but the overall sentiment towards Coillte is that we cannot allow them to do this.

would it be worth while trying to sit down with Coillte before going over their head to the Minister? If we go straight to him and he has no power/inclination to help up it's just another nail in the coffin of relationships with them!
If they refuse or talks don't solve anything by all means go to the Minister.
I also think any talks should include CI/MTB ireland, if we do have to go to the Minister he is more likely to take us seriously if we have the backing of a national organisation.