Ok..the discussion we had going about the trails was removed by me, it got the attention of the powers that be.
So I thought, a lot of good points were made in amongst the hyperbole and the guff, so lets revisit it but this time with restraint and hope that Sean,MBI and even Coillte and the NPWS might make their points known.
By removing the posts I am giving everybody an opportunity to have their say, good or bad.
Personal remarks will be removed.
The main points were that while we have 2 x " trail Centers " provided by Coillte, they are useful for introducing people to Mtb but do nothing for the rest of us who are past that.
We have serious issues with being told " you are not allowed here !!"
Trails being closed and generally not being engaged with by Coillte and the NPWS.
Whats the purpose of the MBI and whats happening.
I've been riding offroad since the early 1980's and nobody will tell me where I can and can't cycle a bike. Although I'm sensible enough not to go wrecking the place or upsetting other land users.
The trails built on 3 rock are very poor and a total wate of 80k, Ballinsatow? was a decent job till it got destroyed by removing the trees now it's a waste land. I just don't go there. Neither are trail centers as they have no facilities.
It would be helpful if 'the powers that be' chipped in to the discussion especially if they were watching the thread. Even if only to say that they wouldn't be contributing because..... Or perhaps with some info....
the revolution has been thwarted by "the powers that be" yet again mountainbikers conceed to coillte!
god forbid we might upset them.
cant believe we've been censored byrne, this isnt a time to be patient and polite the whole point is that our patience is running out,we are sick of being promised that this that and the other thing is coming only to be let down by coillte we are treated like second class citizens by coillte all we want are the same rights as hillwalkers i am no different to any hillwalker.
the only thing i've seen happen since the whole imba/coillte bullsh1t production started is that there has been a byelaw introduced making all mtbers on coillte land outlaws.
this was explained away by "the powers that be" as being a mistake!!!!! but after that explaination coillte went ahead and erected signs at the entrance to various forests to notify everybody that we were indeed outlaws.
coillte need to forget about banning us from riding our bikes on there land and adopt a policy of inclusion and education.
educating different user groups about eachother and how we all use the hills in a diferent way and how we all enjoy the hills the same way and how we should all show eachother the respect that we all deserve.
I have a few questions if you could oblige me with some answers.
1. Can MBI and Coillte Please give me their views on the Issue of Right of ways under the Occupiers liability 1995 as MTB is a recreational activity and sport?
2. Can MBI tell me why the issue is being discussed now, and was MBI consulted as part of the consultation process prior to the 2009 before the new Bylaws came into affect, and was there an effect strategy to combat this.
3. I believe looking objectively from the outside that MTB in Ireland has an Image problem due to non CI members while being exasperated by Youtube videos making it harder for our stakeholders to take us seriously.
4. I believe the issue is an one of Insurance, and Coillte is worried that a person or persons on a MTB will hit a walker causing them harm resulting in legal proceedings against coillte, so its easier to bring in Bylaws banning all MTB without permit which does not work due to right of ways under the Occupiers liability 1995 as we have a legal right to use right of ways.
So I am suggesting that a each CI user that wishes to use the mountains being issued a water proof sticker to be placed on each members helmet stating their CI number so if any abuse on the trails can be reported by walkers etc to MBI. Also this could overcome the issue of permits as each CI member has public liability insurance due to their license.
Would this over come the permit Issue with Coillte for using the trials for every day use?
This might boost memberships of clubs if non CI members feel it might be advantageous to join a club.
So I am suggesting that a each CI user that wishes to use the mountains being issued a water proof sticker to be placed on each members helmet stating their CI number so if any abuse on the trails can be reported by walkers etc to MBI. Also this could overcome the issue of permits as each CI member has public liability insurance due to their license.
this might not be a bad idea but it would not cover non members, it could also be applied to walkers,i may be wrong but i dont think any walkers have liability insurance and i have never met a mountainbiker who has not been assaulted/threatened/abused by walkers. an alternative would be the law stating that everyone entering coillte or national park property does so at their own risk.
Just wondering will I get a reply from both Coillte and MBI to my last post or will I as a private citizen using the mountains have to bring this issue up with my Local TD and the minister in question?:confused:
I belive walkers don't need Liability insurance as they are less likely to cause possible injuries to others. If this was to be applied it might make non CI members think twice about using the mountains without insurance.
I believe walkers don't need Liability insurance as they are less likely to cause possible injuries to others. If this was to be applied it might make non CI members think twice about using the mountains without insurance hence boosting membership of clubs. I have seen many under 18 year old that are new to mountain-biking using the trials this year as you can tell by their dress sense and actions. :)
While I think the insurance scheme has its merits, it would need to be applied to all foresty users, i.e. the MX'ers and Horse riders..
However as most of us are taxpayers this could be seen as just another form of taxation to use lands belonging to us and managed by a semi-state body...
I believe If you are threatened or assaulted by a member of the public while mountain biking then you should report this to the guards. Always be pleasant to the walker while out MTBing like giving way and being polite. From experience over the years this helps. Also if walkers see we are responsible like having insurance or being held accountable might help elevate some of the problems with some of them but not all. As in all walks of life their will always be people with mental problems you will come across. :)
We are only concerned about our own actions and should not be worried about others like MXers and horse riders we are MTBers and not horse riders and can only control the actions of our own community. We have Insurance as part of our license which should be used to its fullest.
I have been living in the heart of the wicklow mountains all my life...I have rode my motox bike and played and cycled up there for nearly 40yrs..I have given up riding the motorbike because of the bylaw. Now I appreciate the motorbike does alot of damage and causes noise pollution and so on...but they can ask my 26in 2.1 rear if they think I will stop cycling there.
I can not begin to tell you how it feels for me as a local for some mickey know all walker from good knows where telling me I shouldn't be there and making me out to be some sort of criminal...
So as far as I am concerned Collite and the walkers can do what they like I will continue to ride my bike...And I wont be wearing any convict sticker to do it either...
I believe walkers don't need Liability insurance as they are less likely to cause possible injuries to others.
im sorry but i dont agree with you there, nobody needs liability insurance some of us are responsible enough to have it.as far as i can see walkers are most likely to cause possible injury to others,look at all the booby traps around 3rock.
Ok..the discussion we had going about the trails was removed by me, it got the attention of the powers that be.
So I thought, a lot of good points were made in amongst the hyperbole and the guff, so lets revisit it but this time with restraint and hope that Sean,MBI and even Coillte and the NPWS might make their points known.
By removing the posts I am giving everybody an opportunity to have their say, good or bad.
Personal remarks will be removed.
The main points were that while we have 2 x " trail Centers " provided by Coillte, they are useful for introducing people to Mtb but do nothing for the rest of us who are past that.
We have serious issues with being told " you are not allowed here !!"
Trails being closed and generally not being engaged with by Coillte and the NPWS.
Whats the purpose of the MBI and whats happening.
I've been riding offroad since the early 1980's and nobody will tell me where I can and can't cycle a bike. Although I'm sensible enough not to go wrecking the place or upsetting other land users.
The trails built on 3 rock are very poor and a total wate of 80k, Ballinsatow? was a decent job till it got destroyed by removing the trees now it's a waste land. I just don't go there. Neither are trail centers as they have no facilities.
It would be helpful if 'the powers that be' chipped in to the discussion especially if they were watching the thread. Even if only to say that they wouldn't be contributing because..... Or perhaps with some info....
the revolution has been thwarted by "the powers that be" yet again mountainbikers conceed to coillte!
god forbid we might upset them.
cant believe we've been censored byrne, this isnt a time to be patient and polite the whole point is that our patience is running out,we are sick of being promised that this that and the other thing is coming only to be let down by coillte we are treated like second class citizens by coillte all we want are the same rights as hillwalkers i am no different to any hillwalker.
the only thing i've seen happen since the whole imba/coillte bullsh1t production started is that there has been a byelaw introduced making all mtbers on coillte land outlaws.
this was explained away by "the powers that be" as being a mistake!!!!! but after that explaination coillte went ahead and erected signs at the entrance to various forests to notify everybody that we were indeed outlaws.
coillte need to forget about banning us from riding our bikes on there land and adopt a policy of inclusion and education.
educating different user groups about eachother and how we all use the hills in a diferent way and how we all enjoy the hills the same way and how we should all show eachother the respect that we all deserve.
I have a few questions if you could oblige me with some answers.
1. Can MBI and Coillte Please give me their views on the Issue of Right of ways under the Occupiers liability 1995 as MTB is a recreational activity and sport?
2. Can MBI tell me why the issue is being discussed now, and was MBI consulted as part of the consultation process prior to the 2009 before the new Bylaws came into affect, and was there an effect strategy to combat this.
3. I believe looking objectively from the outside that MTB in Ireland has an Image problem due to non CI members while being exasperated by Youtube videos making it harder for our stakeholders to take us seriously.
4. I believe the issue is an one of Insurance, and Coillte is worried that a person or persons on a MTB will hit a walker causing them harm resulting in legal proceedings against coillte, so its easier to bring in Bylaws banning all MTB without permit which does not work due to right of ways under the Occupiers liability 1995 as we have a legal right to use right of ways.
So I am suggesting that a each CI user that wishes to use the mountains being issued a water proof sticker to be placed on each members helmet stating their CI number so if any abuse on the trails can be reported by walkers etc to MBI. Also this could overcome the issue of permits as each CI member has public liability insurance due to their license.
Would this over come the permit Issue with Coillte for using the trials for every day use?
This might boost memberships of clubs if non CI members feel it might be advantageous to join a club.
So I am suggesting that a each CI user that wishes to use the mountains being issued a water proof sticker to be placed on each members helmet stating their CI number so if any abuse on the trails can be reported by walkers etc to MBI. Also this could overcome the issue of permits as each CI member has public liability insurance due to their license.
this might not be a bad idea but it would not cover non members, it could also be applied to walkers,i may be wrong but i dont think any walkers have liability insurance and i have never met a mountainbiker who has not been assaulted/threatened/abused by walkers. an alternative would be the law stating that everyone entering coillte or national park property does so at their own risk.
Just wondering will I get a reply from both Coillte and MBI to my last post or will I as a private citizen using the mountains have to bring this issue up with my Local TD and the minister in question?:confused:
I belive walkers don't need Liability insurance as they are less likely to cause possible injuries to others. If this was to be applied it might make non CI members think twice about using the mountains without insurance.
I believe walkers don't need Liability insurance as they are less likely to cause possible injuries to others. If this was to be applied it might make non CI members think twice about using the mountains without insurance hence boosting membership of clubs. I have seen many under 18 year old that are new to mountain-biking using the trials this year as you can tell by their dress sense and actions. :)
While I think the insurance scheme has its merits, it would need to be applied to all foresty users, i.e. the MX'ers and Horse riders..
However as most of us are taxpayers this could be seen as just another form of taxation to use lands belonging to us and managed by a semi-state body...
I believe If you are threatened or assaulted by a member of the public while mountain biking then you should report this to the guards. Always be pleasant to the walker while out MTBing like giving way and being polite. From experience over the years this helps. Also if walkers see we are responsible like having insurance or being held accountable might help elevate some of the problems with some of them but not all. As in all walks of life their will always be people with mental problems you will come across. :)
We are only concerned about our own actions and should not be worried about others like MXers and horse riders we are MTBers and not horse riders and can only control the actions of our own community. We have Insurance as part of our license which should be used to its fullest.
I have been living in the heart of the wicklow mountains all my life...I have rode my motox bike and played and cycled up there for nearly 40yrs..I have given up riding the motorbike because of the bylaw. Now I appreciate the motorbike does alot of damage and causes noise pollution and so on...but they can ask my 26in 2.1 rear if they think I will stop cycling there.
I can not begin to tell you how it feels for me as a local for some mickey know all walker from good knows where telling me I shouldn't be there and making me out to be some sort of criminal...
So as far as I am concerned Collite and the walkers can do what they like I will continue to ride my bike...And I wont be wearing any convict sticker to do it either...
I believe walkers don't need Liability insurance as they are less likely to cause possible injuries to others.
im sorry but i dont agree with you there, nobody needs liability insurance some of us are responsible enough to have it.as far as i can see walkers are most likely to cause possible injury to others,look at all the booby traps around 3rock.
Ok..the discussion we had going about the trails was removed by me, it got the attention of the powers that be.
So I thought, a lot of good points were made in amongst the hyperbole and the guff, so lets revisit it but this time with restraint and hope that Sean,MBI and even Coillte and the NPWS might make their points known.
By removing the posts I am giving everybody an opportunity to have their say, good or bad.
Personal remarks will be removed.
The main points were that while we have 2 x " trail Centers " provided by Coillte, they are useful for introducing people to Mtb but do nothing for the rest of us who are past that.
We have serious issues with being told " you are not allowed here !!"
Trails being closed and generally not being engaged with by Coillte and the NPWS.
Whats the purpose of the MBI and whats happening.
I've been riding offroad since the early 1980's and nobody will tell me where I can and can't cycle a bike. Although I'm sensible enough not to go wrecking the place or upsetting other land users.
The trails built on 3 rock are very poor and a total wate of 80k, Ballinsatow? was a decent job till it got destroyed by removing the trees now it's a waste land. I just don't go there. Neither are trail centers as they have no facilities.
It would be helpful if 'the powers that be' chipped in to the discussion especially if they were watching the thread. Even if only to say that they wouldn't be contributing because..... Or perhaps with some info....
the revolution has been thwarted by "the powers that be" yet again mountainbikers conceed to coillte!
god forbid we might upset them.
cant believe we've been censored byrne, this isnt a time to be patient and polite the whole point is that our patience is running out,we are sick of being promised that this that and the other thing is coming only to be let down by coillte we are treated like second class citizens by coillte all we want are the same rights as hillwalkers i am no different to any hillwalker.
the only thing i've seen happen since the whole imba/coillte bullsh1t production started is that there has been a byelaw introduced making all mtbers on coillte land outlaws.
this was explained away by "the powers that be" as being a mistake!!!!! but after that explaination coillte went ahead and erected signs at the entrance to various forests to notify everybody that we were indeed outlaws.
coillte need to forget about banning us from riding our bikes on there land and adopt a policy of inclusion and education.
educating different user groups about eachother and how we all use the hills in a diferent way and how we all enjoy the hills the same way and how we should all show eachother the respect that we all deserve.
I have a few questions if you could oblige me with some answers.
1. Can MBI and Coillte Please give me their views on the Issue of Right of ways under the Occupiers liability 1995 as MTB is a recreational activity and sport?
2. Can MBI tell me why the issue is being discussed now, and was MBI consulted as part of the consultation process prior to the 2009 before the new Bylaws came into affect, and was there an effect strategy to combat this.
3. I believe looking objectively from the outside that MTB in Ireland has an Image problem due to non CI members while being exasperated by Youtube videos making it harder for our stakeholders to take us seriously.
4. I believe the issue is an one of Insurance, and Coillte is worried that a person or persons on a MTB will hit a walker causing them harm resulting in legal proceedings against coillte, so its easier to bring in Bylaws banning all MTB without permit which does not work due to right of ways under the Occupiers liability 1995 as we have a legal right to use right of ways.
So I am suggesting that a each CI user that wishes to use the mountains being issued a water proof sticker to be placed on each members helmet stating their CI number so if any abuse on the trails can be reported by walkers etc to MBI. Also this could overcome the issue of permits as each CI member has public liability insurance due to their license.
Would this over come the permit Issue with Coillte for using the trials for every day use?
This might boost memberships of clubs if non CI members feel it might be advantageous to join a club.
So I am suggesting that a each CI user that wishes to use the mountains being issued a water proof sticker to be placed on each members helmet stating their CI number so if any abuse on the trails can be reported by walkers etc to MBI. Also this could overcome the issue of permits as each CI member has public liability insurance due to their license.
this might not be a bad idea but it would not cover non members, it could also be applied to walkers,i may be wrong but i dont think any walkers have liability insurance and i have never met a mountainbiker who has not been assaulted/threatened/abused by walkers. an alternative would be the law stating that everyone entering coillte or national park property does so at their own risk.
Just wondering will I get a reply from both Coillte and MBI to my last post or will I as a private citizen using the mountains have to bring this issue up with my Local TD and the minister in question?:confused:
I belive walkers don't need Liability insurance as they are less likely to cause possible injuries to others. If this was to be applied it might make non CI members think twice about using the mountains without insurance.
I believe walkers don't need Liability insurance as they are less likely to cause possible injuries to others. If this was to be applied it might make non CI members think twice about using the mountains without insurance hence boosting membership of clubs. I have seen many under 18 year old that are new to mountain-biking using the trials this year as you can tell by their dress sense and actions. :)
While I think the insurance scheme has its merits, it would need to be applied to all foresty users, i.e. the MX'ers and Horse riders..
However as most of us are taxpayers this could be seen as just another form of taxation to use lands belonging to us and managed by a semi-state body...
I believe If you are threatened or assaulted by a member of the public while mountain biking then you should report this to the guards. Always be pleasant to the walker while out MTBing like giving way and being polite. From experience over the years this helps. Also if walkers see we are responsible like having insurance or being held accountable might help elevate some of the problems with some of them but not all. As in all walks of life their will always be people with mental problems you will come across. :)
We are only concerned about our own actions and should not be worried about others like MXers and horse riders we are MTBers and not horse riders and can only control the actions of our own community. We have Insurance as part of our license which should be used to its fullest.
I have been living in the heart of the wicklow mountains all my life...I have rode my motox bike and played and cycled up there for nearly 40yrs..I have given up riding the motorbike because of the bylaw. Now I appreciate the motorbike does alot of damage and causes noise pollution and so on...but they can ask my 26in 2.1 rear if they think I will stop cycling there.
I can not begin to tell you how it feels for me as a local for some mickey know all walker from good knows where telling me I shouldn't be there and making me out to be some sort of criminal...
So as far as I am concerned Collite and the walkers can do what they like I will continue to ride my bike...And I wont be wearing any convict sticker to do it either...
I believe walkers don't need Liability insurance as they are less likely to cause possible injuries to others.
im sorry but i dont agree with you there, nobody needs liability insurance some of us are responsible enough to have it.as far as i can see walkers are most likely to cause possible injury to others,look at all the booby traps around 3rock.
Ok..the discussion we had going about the trails was removed by me, it got the attention of the powers that be.
So I thought, a lot of good points were made in amongst the hyperbole and the guff, so lets revisit it but this time with restraint and hope that Sean,MBI and even Coillte and the NPWS might make their points known.
By removing the posts I am giving everybody an opportunity to have their say, good or bad.
Personal remarks will be removed.
The main points were that while we have 2 x " trail Centers " provided by Coillte, they are useful for introducing people to Mtb but do nothing for the rest of us who are past that.
We have serious issues with being told " you are not allowed here !!"
Trails being closed and generally not being engaged with by Coillte and the NPWS.
Whats the purpose of the MBI and whats happening.
I've been riding offroad since the early 1980's and nobody will tell me where I can and can't cycle a bike. Although I'm sensible enough not to go wrecking the place or upsetting other land users.
The trails built on 3 rock are very poor and a total wate of 80k, Ballinsatow? was a decent job till it got destroyed by removing the trees now it's a waste land. I just don't go there. Neither are trail centers as they have no facilities.
It would be helpful if 'the powers that be' chipped in to the discussion especially if they were watching the thread. Even if only to say that they wouldn't be contributing because..... Or perhaps with some info....
the revolution has been thwarted by "the powers that be" yet again mountainbikers conceed to coillte!
god forbid we might upset them.
cant believe we've been censored byrne, this isnt a time to be patient and polite the whole point is that our patience is running out,we are sick of being promised that this that and the other thing is coming only to be let down by coillte we are treated like second class citizens by coillte all we want are the same rights as hillwalkers i am no different to any hillwalker.
the only thing i've seen happen since the whole imba/coillte bullsh1t production started is that there has been a byelaw introduced making all mtbers on coillte land outlaws.
this was explained away by "the powers that be" as being a mistake!!!!! but after that explaination coillte went ahead and erected signs at the entrance to various forests to notify everybody that we were indeed outlaws.
coillte need to forget about banning us from riding our bikes on there land and adopt a policy of inclusion and education.
educating different user groups about eachother and how we all use the hills in a diferent way and how we all enjoy the hills the same way and how we should all show eachother the respect that we all deserve.
I have a few questions if you could oblige me with some answers.
1. Can MBI and Coillte Please give me their views on the Issue of Right of ways under the Occupiers liability 1995 as MTB is a recreational activity and sport?
2. Can MBI tell me why the issue is being discussed now, and was MBI consulted as part of the consultation process prior to the 2009 before the new Bylaws came into affect, and was there an effect strategy to combat this.
3. I believe looking objectively from the outside that MTB in Ireland has an Image problem due to non CI members while being exasperated by Youtube videos making it harder for our stakeholders to take us seriously.
4. I believe the issue is an one of Insurance, and Coillte is worried that a person or persons on a MTB will hit a walker causing them harm resulting in legal proceedings against coillte, so its easier to bring in Bylaws banning all MTB without permit which does not work due to right of ways under the Occupiers liability 1995 as we have a legal right to use right of ways.
So I am suggesting that a each CI user that wishes to use the mountains being issued a water proof sticker to be placed on each members helmet stating their CI number so if any abuse on the trails can be reported by walkers etc to MBI. Also this could overcome the issue of permits as each CI member has public liability insurance due to their license.
Would this over come the permit Issue with Coillte for using the trials for every day use?
This might boost memberships of clubs if non CI members feel it might be advantageous to join a club.
So I am suggesting that a each CI user that wishes to use the mountains being issued a water proof sticker to be placed on each members helmet stating their CI number so if any abuse on the trails can be reported by walkers etc to MBI. Also this could overcome the issue of permits as each CI member has public liability insurance due to their license.
this might not be a bad idea but it would not cover non members, it could also be applied to walkers,i may be wrong but i dont think any walkers have liability insurance and i have never met a mountainbiker who has not been assaulted/threatened/abused by walkers. an alternative would be the law stating that everyone entering coillte or national park property does so at their own risk.
Just wondering will I get a reply from both Coillte and MBI to my last post or will I as a private citizen using the mountains have to bring this issue up with my Local TD and the minister in question?:confused:
I belive walkers don't need Liability insurance as they are less likely to cause possible injuries to others. If this was to be applied it might make non CI members think twice about using the mountains without insurance.
I believe walkers don't need Liability insurance as they are less likely to cause possible injuries to others. If this was to be applied it might make non CI members think twice about using the mountains without insurance hence boosting membership of clubs. I have seen many under 18 year old that are new to mountain-biking using the trials this year as you can tell by their dress sense and actions. :)
While I think the insurance scheme has its merits, it would need to be applied to all foresty users, i.e. the MX'ers and Horse riders..
However as most of us are taxpayers this could be seen as just another form of taxation to use lands belonging to us and managed by a semi-state body...
I believe If you are threatened or assaulted by a member of the public while mountain biking then you should report this to the guards. Always be pleasant to the walker while out MTBing like giving way and being polite. From experience over the years this helps. Also if walkers see we are responsible like having insurance or being held accountable might help elevate some of the problems with some of them but not all. As in all walks of life their will always be people with mental problems you will come across. :)
We are only concerned about our own actions and should not be worried about others like MXers and horse riders we are MTBers and not horse riders and can only control the actions of our own community. We have Insurance as part of our license which should be used to its fullest.
I have been living in the heart of the wicklow mountains all my life...I have rode my motox bike and played and cycled up there for nearly 40yrs..I have given up riding the motorbike because of the bylaw. Now I appreciate the motorbike does alot of damage and causes noise pollution and so on...but they can ask my 26in 2.1 rear if they think I will stop cycling there.
I can not begin to tell you how it feels for me as a local for some mickey know all walker from good knows where telling me I shouldn't be there and making me out to be some sort of criminal...
So as far as I am concerned Collite and the walkers can do what they like I will continue to ride my bike...And I wont be wearing any convict sticker to do it either...
I believe walkers don't need Liability insurance as they are less likely to cause possible injuries to others.
im sorry but i dont agree with you there, nobody needs liability insurance some of us are responsible enough to have it.as far as i can see walkers are most likely to cause possible injury to others,look at all the booby traps around 3rock.