Hello..
this topic has come up more than once and it seems to me that race organizers are playing havoc with the sports cat as usual..
I always believe the Sports should do the same lap as everybody else because you can compare your lap times with the age cats and Experts, so you'll know your standard.
On Sunday the sports race was not even 8k in total yet the experts was nearly 30 !! Masters was over 20 ..
Thats some jump !!
Personally I think the Sports should be the same as Vets at least..
What do people think of that !!
Definitely need to be the same length as everybody else..imagine travelling from Belfast to be handed an 8k race !!
I completely agree. Sports people generally want to get improve and have a good race. Less than 8k does not give the same value for money. It also seems all we got were some steep muddy bits and flat muddy bits.
I would only do another XC if the length made it worth my while. 8k wasn't worth the dirt on my tires not when I can wait until a tuesday night and have a long craic filled race!
thats a good point atually, I like your style..Age doesn't matter, i'd say the top 3 Vets are lapping the same as Elites FFS !! and the masters..they wouldn't be far off it..but I guess you would have to go along with the UCI or what have you..but by jaysus that would be some great racing..
if you took the top 10 Masters, Vets and Experts and put them in to a race together !!!
And another thing , the Elite ladies..no..sorry girls, I have been caught by Tarja and Beth..i wouldn't catch them in a fit.
personally i think the sports should start at 11.00 and 4 laps..take as long as you want and pick numbers at random out of hat for prizes.
From what i've observed, Gavs interpretation of the sports race is spot on.
Yea, that makes sense. It was complete nonsense that we didn't even do the same course as the other categories and the jump in distance from sport to masters is too much. We only did 7.4k compared to masters doing 23k, that's more than 3 times the distance!! We should be doing at least 2/3rds the distance of the masters. That's only my opinion anyway, not that I'm a expert seeing as last week was my first race.
John.
I've only entered one xc race which was sports. I picked sports as i didnt think i'd have the legs for the extra laps of the next category (2 for sports, 4 for masters?)
It would be nice to have a 3 lap category as a step up between sports and masters.
Would be nice if you had the option to sign up for a 2, or 3 lap option of sports.
(Although, am i right in saying the idea of having the sports quite short is so that they are off the track before the fast guys get going?).
sometimes that was the excuse, but thats nonsense..the maximum i ever saw a sports racer take was 45 mins for a lap ..they'd still be well finished before the elites go at 1.30.
I have also heard the argument that Sports are not " able" for the full lap , which is complete and utter bollocks and an insult to people like Gav and Adam..
the only difference between them and the other categories is fitness..their ability on the bike is as good as any Elite. in fact would be better than some.
I'm not sure about the right no of laps but more imporantly for me is that the laps should be no different to those for the other classes. If I remember correctly then this was the way it was for the club NPS in Djouce last year and it seemed to work well.
Speaking with very little exp of xc racing IMO it is pointless having a sports class race that is run on a shorter/ different course than the other classes, how can can you compare your lap times(if organisers bother to do this) and overall time with other racers in other classes.I feel this is very important as it allows you to realistically decide when it is time to move up to an age/compentency class, as there is nothing more off putting in any race/event than being completely out of your depth fitness wise or ability wise.
There were a lot of very experienced and competitive mtb bikers in the sports class trying out xc racing for the first time or so and i think the idea of spot prises/novelty event might destroy the whole "racing/competing against each other" experience that we all enjoy so much.Just my 2pence worth ;D
I agree with you Rusty Ring! We all want to be able to gauge our performances against the better classes to see whether we are improving and the only way to do that is on the same track.
I also think there should be a "Sports" NPS series same as all the other classes - the Sports riders pay their entries like everybody else! If I was to make the effort to travel around the country to all the events I would like to be able to aim for a "Top Twenty" (or whatever) overall at the end of the season.
I understand that there are concerns about "Bangers" riding Sports for the "glory" of winning but it would be relatively easy to promote the top 5 from the class at the end of every season whether they like it or not. I know that I have very little experience of the MTBing scene but I have ridden Enduro and MX over the years and a similar system worked well - Stuart Carr was actually on a MX "Grading" committee as far as I can remember!
I surely was Richard, and it worked. I suggested it here, but to be honest, I don't think it's needed here. bangers arn't that much of a problem at the moment, and if there are any the epic cheerleaders will encourage them to change cat. Fast newbies will always exist, they are entitled to.
the debate here is treating sports riders like proper MTB'rs. not incapable goobers. give them a 1.30 race... same as everybody else. This might mean 2 laps due to slower pace.
I think losing the age groups is a great idea. They don't exist in enduro... sports, clubman, expert, elites.....
Look at it this way, Robin is in the latter half of masters, and Bugsy is a vet. Do they need a shorter race? age means f'all.
yeah, you'll feel like a thirtysomething again...
"Veteran" is a horrible name for a category anyway, yeah, I'll get all that changed, "MatureSavages" sounds so much more palatable
Hello..
this topic has come up more than once and it seems to me that race organizers are playing havoc with the sports cat as usual..
I always believe the Sports should do the same lap as everybody else because you can compare your lap times with the age cats and Experts, so you'll know your standard.
On Sunday the sports race was not even 8k in total yet the experts was nearly 30 !! Masters was over 20 ..
Thats some jump !!
Personally I think the Sports should be the same as Vets at least..
What do people think of that !!
Definitely need to be the same length as everybody else..imagine travelling from Belfast to be handed an 8k race !!
I completely agree. Sports people generally want to get improve and have a good race. Less than 8k does not give the same value for money. It also seems all we got were some steep muddy bits and flat muddy bits.
I would only do another XC if the length made it worth my while. 8k wasn't worth the dirt on my tires not when I can wait until a tuesday night and have a long craic filled race!
thats a good point atually, I like your style..Age doesn't matter, i'd say the top 3 Vets are lapping the same as Elites FFS !! and the masters..they wouldn't be far off it..but I guess you would have to go along with the UCI or what have you..but by jaysus that would be some great racing..
if you took the top 10 Masters, Vets and Experts and put them in to a race together !!!
And another thing , the Elite ladies..no..sorry girls, I have been caught by Tarja and Beth..i wouldn't catch them in a fit.
personally i think the sports should start at 11.00 and 4 laps..take as long as you want and pick numbers at random out of hat for prizes.
From what i've observed, Gavs interpretation of the sports race is spot on.
Yea, that makes sense. It was complete nonsense that we didn't even do the same course as the other categories and the jump in distance from sport to masters is too much. We only did 7.4k compared to masters doing 23k, that's more than 3 times the distance!! We should be doing at least 2/3rds the distance of the masters. That's only my opinion anyway, not that I'm a expert seeing as last week was my first race.
John.
I've only entered one xc race which was sports. I picked sports as i didnt think i'd have the legs for the extra laps of the next category (2 for sports, 4 for masters?)
It would be nice to have a 3 lap category as a step up between sports and masters.
Would be nice if you had the option to sign up for a 2, or 3 lap option of sports.
(Although, am i right in saying the idea of having the sports quite short is so that they are off the track before the fast guys get going?).
sometimes that was the excuse, but thats nonsense..the maximum i ever saw a sports racer take was 45 mins for a lap ..they'd still be well finished before the elites go at 1.30.
I have also heard the argument that Sports are not " able" for the full lap , which is complete and utter bollocks and an insult to people like Gav and Adam..
the only difference between them and the other categories is fitness..their ability on the bike is as good as any Elite. in fact would be better than some.
I'm not sure about the right no of laps but more imporantly for me is that the laps should be no different to those for the other classes. If I remember correctly then this was the way it was for the club NPS in Djouce last year and it seemed to work well.
Speaking with very little exp of xc racing IMO it is pointless having a sports class race that is run on a shorter/ different course than the other classes, how can can you compare your lap times(if organisers bother to do this) and overall time with other racers in other classes.I feel this is very important as it allows you to realistically decide when it is time to move up to an age/compentency class, as there is nothing more off putting in any race/event than being completely out of your depth fitness wise or ability wise.
There were a lot of very experienced and competitive mtb bikers in the sports class trying out xc racing for the first time or so and i think the idea of spot prises/novelty event might destroy the whole "racing/competing against each other" experience that we all enjoy so much.Just my 2pence worth ;D
I agree with you Rusty Ring! We all want to be able to gauge our performances against the better classes to see whether we are improving and the only way to do that is on the same track.
I also think there should be a "Sports" NPS series same as all the other classes - the Sports riders pay their entries like everybody else! If I was to make the effort to travel around the country to all the events I would like to be able to aim for a "Top Twenty" (or whatever) overall at the end of the season.
I understand that there are concerns about "Bangers" riding Sports for the "glory" of winning but it would be relatively easy to promote the top 5 from the class at the end of every season whether they like it or not. I know that I have very little experience of the MTBing scene but I have ridden Enduro and MX over the years and a similar system worked well - Stuart Carr was actually on a MX "Grading" committee as far as I can remember!
I surely was Richard, and it worked. I suggested it here, but to be honest, I don't think it's needed here. bangers arn't that much of a problem at the moment, and if there are any the epic cheerleaders will encourage them to change cat. Fast newbies will always exist, they are entitled to.
the debate here is treating sports riders like proper MTB'rs. not incapable goobers. give them a 1.30 race... same as everybody else. This might mean 2 laps due to slower pace.
I think losing the age groups is a great idea. They don't exist in enduro... sports, clubman, expert, elites.....
Look at it this way, Robin is in the latter half of masters, and Bugsy is a vet. Do they need a shorter race? age means f'all.
yeah, you'll feel like a thirtysomething again...
"Veteran" is a horrible name for a category anyway, yeah, I'll get all that changed, "MatureSavages" sounds so much more palatable